Martin 5:55 PM
Good evening.
Now chatting with: Amelita and Chelsea
Amelita 5:56 PM
Hello Martin, This is Amelita and Chelsea. How are you today?:)
Martin 5:57 PM
I am well. Thank you. And you?
Amelita 5:57 PM
We are doing well also. How can we help you today?:)
Martin 6:02 PM
Question regarding peculiar LDS language. I have been reading up on "fullness" of the gospel. If I understand correctly, "fullness" means the LDS priesthood completes the gospel of faith, repentance, and baptism by immersion, which is code for rejecting other Christian's priesthood as invalid/improper/unauthorized. More or less accurate?
Amelita 6:03 PM
Well, we believe all the church is true but we are not rejected the other religion. But we believe that our church restored the Fullness of The Gospel of Jesus Christ:)
Martin 6:05 PM
Oh, so other Christian's do have power and authority to baptize?
Amelita 6:08 PM
I am not too sure about the other religion. All I know is my church:)
Martin 6:09 PM
OK. So they could have valid priesthood?
Amelita 6:10 PM
Maybe not:)
Martin 6:13 PM
Maybe not, but maybe so, you don't know?
Now chatting with: Catherine and Morgan
Morgan 6:17 PM
Hello Martin! We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only true church and is the only church that holds the same priesthood keys that Christ did when he lived on the earth :) Does that help answer your question at all?
Martin 6:19 PM
So that means you reject the Christian priesthood of other Christian congregations, right?
Morgan 6:22 PM
In a way, yes. We believe our church is the only church with the true Priesthood of Christ. We do not reject any actions or statements made by Christian churches, in fact we have very similar beliefs to many of their churches.
Martin 6:24 PM
So, with regards to Christians, you are here to take away their faith in their priesthood, before replacing it with faith in LDS priesthood. Correct?
Morgan 6:26 PM
Not at all. We respect all other religions, their beliefs, and their worship, we just believe that our church has the true priesthood. We have no intention on changing any religion or their priesthood.
Martin 6:28 PM
I don't think that is what I ask. So I think that means the answer to what I asked was, yes, but you have a discomfort phrasing it so directly. Is that correct?
Morgan 6:29 PM
No. We are not here to take away their faith in their priesthood or replace it with faith in the Church of Jesus Christ's Priesthood.
Martin 6:30 PM
But you reject their priesthood?
Morgan 6:31 PM
We do not believe that their Priesthood is the same Priesthood that Christ held when he was on the earth.
Martin 6:31 PM
How is that different than rejecting their priesthood?
Morgan 6:32 PM
It isn't. We respect their beliefs and Priesthood, but we do not accept it as Christs.
Martin 6:33 PM
So you do reject their priesthood?
Morgan 6:34 PM
Yes we do. We know that Christs church was restored in 1820 and that his Priesthood was restored to Joseph Smith a few years later.
Martin 6:37 PM
So people can come closer to Christ without rejecting faith in Christian priesthood?
Morgan 6:38 PM
Yes. Anyone can draw closer to Christ by taking his name upon him and following his example from when he was on earth :)
Martin 6:39 PM
Christian are already doing that, so how do they draw closer?
Morgan 6:39 PM
No one is perfect, we can always draw closer and become more like Christ by reading his scriptures, doing service for others, and attending weekly church :)
Martin 6:42 PM
Yes, this is what Christians preach, so you really do not have a message for Christians. Your message is more for people who are not already Christians. But I notice, that despite LDS missionaries being most places where it is legal, they are almost predominately in places where people are already Christian. Why?
Morgan 6:43 PM
We invite everyone to learn more about Christ. Whether you already have a strong testimony or you've never heard the name, we teach anyone interested in our message. It doesn't matter what their religion was before, if they are interested and willing to learn we will teach :) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has very similar beliefs from most dominant Christian churches, so most people who join our church have been Christian in the past. We share same insights, with just a bit more.
Martin 6:46 PM
That is nice. So LDS missionaries are looking for people to join their Church. That is there purpose?
Morgan 6:47 PM
Our purpose is to invite others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored gospel through faith, repentance, baptism, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost :)
Martin 6:49 PM
And, per your prior, for Christians that predominately entails rejecting their Christian priesthood. Right?
Morgan 6:48 PM
Yes, but it is their choice. We invite them to accept the true Priesthood that Christ held while he was here on the earth. Our intentions are not to change anyone, but to help them learn and draw closer to our Saviour. It is voluntary, those who join do so because they have felt the spirit tell them that the Church is true :)
Martin 7:00 PM
Wow, I certainly hope you don't have the superpower of involuntarily making people believe something. That would be something else.
Christian's believe all Christian's have priesthood, so of course they believe you have priesthood. But your definition of "the Church is true", according to what you clarified above, is rejecting other Christian's priesthood. However, the truth is, LDS join for many different reasons, there is no universal reason. And I imagine many join the LDS without rejecting the priesthood of other Christians. But your descriptions above clarify what it is you really mean by "fullness" etc, you mean rejecting other Christians priesthood. You displayed discomfort with speaking with such clarity, almost like you don't want people to know this immediately, but you wish to ease them into little by little. Why?
Morgan 7:04 PM
I feel you area accusing our church for the rejection of other religions Priesthoods. In no way do we force anyone to leave behind any beliefs they don't want to. All we do as missionaries is help others receive happiness by accepting the true church of Jesus Christ. I am going to go now because I do not desire to argue anymore with you. Thank you for coming on, I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
Morgan ended the chat session.
Martin 7:15 PM
Good evening.
Now chatting with: Daniela
Daniela 7:16 PM
Hi Martin!
Daniela 7:16 PM
How can I help you?
Martin 7:18 PM
Hi Daniela. I was chatting with Morgan. She said something curious before disconnecting.
Martin 7:19 PM
"accusing our church" - What does accusing a church mean?
Daniela 7:20 PM
Accusing is when someone is indicating a belief in someone's guilt or culpability.
Martin 7:21 PM
That is unfortunate. Usually guilt or culpability is in regards to something. I wonder in regard to what she meant it?
Daniela 7:22 PM
What you were talking about?
Martin 7:24 PM
She said "I feel you are accusing our church for rejection of other religion's Priesthood". I am confused how stating something she agreed with is accusing. What is it accusing of?
She agreed that this rejection of other Christian priesthood is what she offers Christians to come closer to Christ. If that is what she feels, she should say it loud and proud, not feel accused.
Daniela 7:27 PM
Did you said something to her that's why she told you that?
Martin 7:28 PM
Now that sounds like an accusation. No, I am not guilty of saying anything offense, like you just suggested. So you agree, there was no reason for her to feel accused?
Daniela 7:29 PM
I'm just asking, I'm not accusing you.
Well I don't know
Sometimes is better just to let it go
Daniela ended the chat session.
Martin 4:29 PM
Good evening
Now chatting with: Minette
Minette 4:30 PM
Hey Martin!
Minette 4:30 PM
This is Minette and August. How are you?
Martin 4:32 PM
I am well. And you?
Minette 4:32 PM
We are so good. Thanks for asking!
Minette 4:32 PM
How can we help you today?
Martin 4:36 PM
Question regarding some peculiar LDS language. After reading, if I understand correctly, the "fullness" of the gospel refers to priesthood "authority", by which you mean other's priesthood is invalid/improper/unauthorized. So fullness is a euphemism for rejecting of Christian priesthood. More or less accurate?
Martin 4:44 PM
Hello?
Minette 4:45 PM
The fullness of the Gospel does not just refer to the priesthood but also to teachings etc.
Minette 4:45 PM
We believe that other Churches have parts of the truth but that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the fullness. But we also believe that everyone can believe what they would like.
Martin 4:48 PM
From what I have read, the fullness is faith, repentance, baptism by immersion, all of which other churches have. The only thing they do not have, according to the LDS, is authority. Fullness appears to be a euphemism for rejecting other Christian's priesthood. Is that wrong?
Minette 4:50 PM
We believe that the priesthood was taken off the earth when Jesus and His apostles died. Through Joseph Smith, the priesthood was put back on the earth. John the baptist, Peter, James and John, are the ones who held it before and gave it to him. Therefore, only people who have been given the priesthood from members of the church have the true power of God.
I see this makes you upset, I am sorry for that! But these are our beliefs.
Martin 4:56 PM
"I see this makes you upset" Why would you say that? Should that make me upset?
Minette 4:56 PM
Do you have any other questions we can help you with?
Martin 4:57 PM
Yes I do. Why did you say you think that makes me upset. As far as I know that has no reason to make me upset. Very strange you would say that makes me upset. Why?
Minette 4:57 PM
Oh so sorry! I misunderstand that. We would love to answer other questions you have.
Martin 4:58 PM
It is interesting that you thought it made me upset. Can we discuss why you might of thought that?
Minette ended the chat session
Martin 4:59 PM
Hi
Now chatting with: Lauren and Reika
Reika 5:00 PM
Hi Martin! This is Reika and Lauren.
Martin 5:00 PM
Hi I was just chatting with Minette. Minette was explaining that the peculiar LDS language of "fullness" refers to rejecting other Christian's priesthood.
Lauren 5:04 PM
What do you think about that?
Martin 5:05 PM
I have no thought on it. But Minette indicated that she assumed people find this clarification of the word "fullness" to be upsetting. Do you think other people might find this upsetting?
Lauren 5:07 PM
Maybe, we are not really sure about that.
Martin 5:08 PM
About how people might think about it, or about fullness meaning rejecting other Christian's priesthood?
Lauren 5:09 PM
About how people might think about it. If you don't mind us asking, do you believe that every Christian has the priesthood?
Martin 5:11 PM
Of course. To think they do not is purely a matter of faith.
Martin 5:12 PM
So you are only here to take other Christian's faith in their priesthood away?
Lauren 5:13 PM
No, everyone has their own faith and agency. So we, as members of the church, believe that everyone should have the right to choose their own beliefs.
Martin 5:16 PM
Wow, that would be some super power to be able to force people to belief something. But I am not sure what that has to done with your suggestion that you are only here to take people's faith in their priesthood away.
Lauren ended the chat session.
Martin 5:19 PM
Hi
Martin 5:20 PM
Hi Reika. I was just chatting with you and Lauren.
Martin 5:20 PM
We got disconnect.
Martin 5:22 PM
Lauren was explaining how "fullness" is a code word you use for wanting to take people's faith in their priesthood away. Is that your main purpose here?
Now chatting with: Lauren and Reika
They left the chat session without ever responding ....