Now chatting with: Abbie and Mena
Abbie9:02 PM
Hi Pamela! How can we help you today?
Pamela9:03 PM
What is sin?
Abbie9:03 PM
That's a good question :) Sin is anything we do that goes contrary to the commandments of God.
Pamela9:05 PM
So it is impossible to say, because only the individual and God knows what God has commanded them. Right?
Abbie9:06 PM
No, we know that the commandments are. They can be found in Exodus, in the Bible. For example: Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, etc.
Pamela9:08 PM
But God commanded Nephi to kill. ???
Abbie9:08 PM
Yes, sometimes God gives us other commandments that we need to follow. There's a verse in that chapter that explains why God commanded Nephi to kill Laban. It is chapter 4, verse 13: "Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief."
Pamela9:11 PM
So, like I wrote, It is impossible to say what is a sin, because only the individual and God know what God commanded of them. Right?
Abbie9:12 PM
Pretty much we know the standard of sin. God has commanded all of us to not kill. But, in this one scenario it was not a sin because God commanded otherwise.
Pamela9:13 PM
So it is impossible to say for sure, we only have rough ideas?
Abbie9:14 PM
It's more like an exception, rather than a rough idea. We know exactly what actions are sins, but sometimes there are exceptions.
Pamela9:16 PM
Tomato tomata. Without strict rules knowing to what is an acceptable exception and what is not, we can not say for sure. It seems to be important to you that we can say for sure what is sin and what is not. Why?
Abbie9:17 PM
What I don't want is for there to be any confusion that "nothing is a sin until God says so". If we say that there aren't commandments set, then it would be easy to say "God commanded this, or that". We have been given strict rules by God. But they are His commandments, so he has the power to command other things when he needs to.
Pamela9:23 PM
"easy to say" ? Who decides what is easy to say? When I read Nephi it was not easy for him to run to the commandment, he paused to take it seriously. By "easy to say" I am not sure what you mean. I think you mean to not take lightly the commandments of that God gives us, but to put our full energy to executing them well. Is that right?
Abbie9:23 PM
What I meant by "easy to say" is that those who aren't close to God could justify doing anything and saying "God told me to". and yes, the whole idea is to make sure we aren't taking the commandments God has already given us, lightly
Pamela9:25 PM
Who decides who is "close to God"?
Abbie9:27 PM
I just mean it would be easier to justify. Not necessarily for nephi. I mean in general.
Pamela9:28 PM
So most of us are close to God. I mean there a few mental ill people who hear voices and falsely think they hear God talking, but the rest of us are close to God. Right?
Abbie9:29 PM
Pamela, may I ask why you came online to chat today?
Pamela9:30 PM
Because God told me to and if I did not obey that would be a sin. Why did you come online today?
Abbie9:31 PM
Pamela our time online is finished for today. Have a merry christmas.
Pamela9:31 PM
Happy holidays!
[She ended the chat. The chat session has ended.]
Now chatting with: Kennedy
Kennedy9:38 PM
Hi Pamela! How are you doing tonight?
Pamela9:38 PM
I am outstanding. And you?
Kennedy9:39 PM
I'm good! What brings you to the chat tonight?
Pamela9:39 PM
I was wondering. What is sin?
Kennedy9:40 PM
Well generally speaking, sin is anything that separates us from God or contradicts God's commandments
Pamela9:41 PM
So it is impossible to say for sure. Only the individual and God knows for sure what God commanded them. Right?
Kennedy9:42 PM
Well sin is to willfully disobey God’s commandments or to fail to act righteously despite a knowledge of the truth. So there are certain laws and standards that God has given us to follow so it's pretty clear what is a sin and what isn't
Pamela9:46 PM
"pretty clear"? God told Abraham to kill his son. I mean the current Abrahamic religions are based on this: Judaism, Christianity, Islam. That does not seem clear to me. Does it seem clear to you?
Kennedy9:46 PM
Obviously God telling Abraham to kill his son was a personal situation. I think that the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints does a pretty good job at clarifying what sin is and how to avoid committing sin
Pamela9:48 PM
"Obviously"? Every person's life is personal. Are you saying the basis of the Abrahamic religions has nothing to do with everyone else that follows those religions?
Kennedy9:48 PM
No, but what I'm saying is that killing a son wasn't a commandment that God gave to everyone. But there are commandments that he has given to all of us and they're pretty clear
Pamela9:50 PM
Like, thou shalt not kill? So there are commandments for one group of people and then there are commandments for the rest of us?
Kennedy9:52 PM
No of course not. God telling Abraham to kill his son was a commandment given directly to Abraham. But the main commandments are for everyone. We all are to keep the commandments that God has given to us. He is the only one that can command us otherwise
Pamela9:54 PM
So, again, we have no certainty what God is commanding others otherwise. Right? I mean God is so powerful He is most likely talking to everybody individually. Right?
Kennedy9:54 PM
True. So yes, you and God know what he has asked you to do
Pamela9:57 PM
So it really is impossible to say what sin is. We can only know for ourselves and ourselves alone?
Kennedy9:57 PM
typically speaking, we all follow the main standards and commandments. very rarely will God command others to do contrary to those commandments.
Pamela9:59 PM
"typically" and "very rarely", who decides these things? We are special in the eyes of God. We are all special in the eyes of God. Are we not?
Kennedy10:00 PM
I think it's easy for you to know if God has commanded you to do something or not. But he has already commanded each one of us to follow the prophets and to keep the commandments. And that's to each one of us. So I think that it's important to live the standards and commandments he has given us.
Pamela10:02 PM
I agree it should be easy. And it is individual for each one of us. No one else should be telling us. Right?
Kennedy10:02 PM
God has told us through the scriptures as well as modern prophets. They have been called of God to lead and guide us
Pamela10:06 PM
Yes, scriptures are always good and so are the many prophets, and so are the many good books and information we get from numerous sources. But ultimately it is easy for us to ask God ourselves want is require for ourselves in our own unique and special circumstance, because for God we are unique and special, just like Abraham. After all, God is so powerful, he has no reason to treat us differently than Abraham. Right?
Kennedy10:06 PM
God speaks to us personally but also through prophets. Abraham was a prophet so he received even more specific commandments. I think that it depends on your heart. Are we willing to humble ourselves and keep the commandments given to us through God's chosen servants? Or are we going to rely on the things that we feel like we should do and ignore the fact that God has called prophets?
Pamela10:10 PM
Yes God has given us many prophets, scriptures, and many sources of information. The interesting part here is you seem to be uncomfortable with the idea that God can give us commandments directly. Do you distrust the promptings we receive of the Spirit?
Kennedy10:12 PM
Absolutely not. I know that God speaks to each one of us and gives us promptings. But I also know that we need to keep the commandments that God has given us through prophets
there is a balance
Pamela10:14 PM
Well I think everyone can agree with that. We all have our prophets to help keep us in check. The important part is to follow the prophet that the Spirit prompts us to follow. It is not the same for everyone. Right?
Kennedy10:15 PM
yes that's right
Pamela10:15 PM
For some that prophet may be Pat Robertson, the Pope, or the Dalai Lama. Right?
Kennedy10:22 PM
Well I know that the only true prophet of God is Russell M Nelson
Pamela10:24 PM
"only true". You mean for you. Right? I mean for everyone else, there may be other prophets. Right?
Kennedy10:25 PM
He is the prophet. The only one
Pamela10:26 PM
I don't understand. Why is there only one for everyone?
Kennedy10:27 PM
God has called one prophet to lead and guide the earth to follow him.
Pamela10:28 PM
The whole Earth? In the times of Abraham wasn't here more than one? Melchizedek for example. The times of Peter, wasn't another Nephi also a prophet, and Saint Paul, etc.
Kennedy10:30 PM
Yes there multiple in scripture times but mostly for the lack of worldwide communication. Now we only have one prophet on the earth
Pamela10:33 PM
Worldwide communication? That has only been very recently. And not everywhere. You seem to be extremely uncomfortable that someone else can have prophets, scriptures, and information sources separate from your own. Why?
Kennedy10:34 PM
Because I know that President Nelson is the one true prophet on the earth. Not uncomfortable with it, you just don't believe it. I know that the bible and the book of mormon are the word of God and that this is the one true church of Jesus Christ here on the earth
Pamela10:37 PM
So all other churches are false?
Kennedy10:37 PM
They just don't have the full truth
Pamela10:38 PM
What truth are they missing?
Kennedy10:38 PM
The proper authority of God, Temple ordinances, the Book of Mormon, modern revelation, the ability for families to be together forever. There's a lot
Pamela10:40 PM
Most have some sort of believe in those things. So they do have full truth. What? I think what you are confusing is, you like the Mormon church and it is an information source God has commanded you to seek. But why do you falsely conclude that God wants everyone else to exclusively use the Mormon church as an information source?
Kennedy10:41 PM
Not all religions believe those things. and truly we are the only ones that have the proper priesthood authority of God. it's not something i chose because i simply like it. I chose this church because it is the true church of Christ.
Pamela10:42 PM
The "true church" for you. I get that. But why the unhealthy need to speak for God and force it on everyone else?
Kennedy10:43 PM
I have to go now Pamela but I hope I was able to answer some of your questions! I hope you are able to find peace and the truth you are looking for. I know this is the true church but it is up to everyone to choose for themselves. have a good day!
Pamela10:43 PM
No need to find what I already have. But I see you are obviously still looking. I wish you the best of luck in your search.
[She left the chat]
Now chatting with: Rachel
Rachel10:14 AM
Hi George! This is Rachel from ComeUntoChrist.org! How can I help you?
George10:15 AM
My friend Pamela was discussing taking commandments from God with online missionary, Kennedy, yesterday. Kennedy mentioned people should get their commandments from God but was very uncomfortable with people not taking commandments from the Mormon prophet. Can you explain Kennedy's concern?
Rachel10:16 AM
We believe that commandments from the prophet are commandments from God. There is a scripture in the first section of the Doctrine and Covenants that is referring to prophets that says: 38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my aword shall not pass away, but shall all be bfulfilled, whether by mine own cvoice or by the dvoice of my eservants, it is the fsame.
George10:19 AM
Yes but then Kennedy admitted the prophets said thou shalt not kill but commanded Nephi and Abraham to kill. So the contradiction is everybody receives commandments from God individually just like Abraham in Nephi.
Rachel10:19 AM
Well in Nephi's case, the Lord explained to Nephi the reason why:13 Behold the Lord aslayeth the bwicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is cbetter that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in dunbelief.
So yes, God gives us commandments to help us and protect us, but in circumstances that benefit mankind, those commandments may be broken for a wiser purpose.
George10:23 AM
Right so we all have our own special source of information from God. God sees us all a special and he has so much power he can talk with us individually. Kennedy was uncomfortable with that fact. She wanted us not to listen to God directly but to the Mormon prophet. Isn't that a contradiction?
Rachel10:23 AM
So in Nephi's case and Abrahams case, they were prophets
George10:25 AM
Yes we are all Prophets. But you seem to disagree. You don't think God talks to all of us?
Rachel10:26 AM
We each have the right to revelation, or communication with God. But prophets are different, they have been chosen and called by God and given authority to receive revelation for a large amount of people.
George10:30 AM
So you're saying God only gives commandments opposite of The commandments for the group to people classified as prophets. But there are many prophets a person could receive commandments from God in contradiction to Mormon prophet if God tells them to and they are a prophet. In the time of Abraham there are many prophets Melchezedek for example. And in the time of Peter there was saint Paul and another Nephi in the Americas. And other prophets for other sheep that we do not know. Prophets everywhere. You're saying that's not true anymore that there can only be one prophet today? God is now different than he was before?
Rachel10:31 AM
The world is different than it was before. Now there is an ability to communicate God's will throughout the world. Before, there was no way to communicate throughout the world and therefore God needed to work through multiple prophets chosen and called by Him.
George10:34 AM
I fail to see how the world is different. Can you demonstrate how it's different? People still come from different cultures just like they did before. People still have different and unique situations. All in their own unique circumstances. That has not changed.
Melchizedek was within communication distance of Abraham and Melchizedek did not tell Abraham to lie or kill his son.
Also, it's not true that everyone has easy access to global communications and planet is big and communications does not at all reach everywhere.
[She left the chat with out response]
Now chatting with: Hannah and Lily
Hannah2:45 PM
Hi Blake! This is Hannah and Lily! How can we help you today?
Blake2:46 PM
Question. Is your purpose to get people to reject their religious leaders and accept yours as the only true Prophet?
Hannah2:48 PM
That's a good question Blake! We believe that our church is the restored church that Jesus Christ organized and our purpose is to bring others unto Christ. Does that answer your question?
Blake2:49 PM
So you here to convince people that the Christian church was missing previously? You are here to take people's faith in the Christian church away?
Hannah2:50 PM
I can see why you may be confused about that. We don't believe that the Christian church was missing, but that the proper authority was. We have come to find out for ourselves that this is true and we want to share that knowledge and the happiness we gain from it with others. :)
Blake2:53 PM
I am sorry you feel that way. I am not confused and I know that is not true. By you saying " we want to share that knowlege" you are admitting your purpose here is to take people's faith away?
Lily2:55 PM
We respect your beliefs. Joseph Smith wrote: "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." Article of Faith 11
Thanks for coming on chat today, and letting us explain to you a little more about what we believe! Have a great day, and a Merry Christmas!
[They Ended Chat The chat session has ended.]
[See how they accuse others of being confused, dismiss facts as belief, and refer to their beliefs as knowledge]
Now chatting with: Britany
Hi Blake, what can we do for you?
Blake3:00 PM
Hi was just chatting with Hannah and Lily. They accused me of being confused and dismiss facts as beliefs, and presented their faith as knowledge. Why? Is that argumentative behavior? I mean if they have knowlege, then it is not faith and science would agree with them.
Britany3:02 PM
What kind of science would disprove faith is as knowledge?
Blake3:03 PM
What? If a person has knowledge, then it is not faith. If you have knowledge, then you don't have faith. Isn't their behavior argumentative?
Britany3:04 PM
It can become augmentative. When you have knowledge it doesn't mean you can't have faith. Having faith means that you are trusting in the knowledge that you do have. You have knowledge that your car has an engine, and you have trust that that engine will start. That is having faith in knowledge.
Blake3:09 PM
OK, so why did she dismiss my knowledge as a belief? If you are going to use language in particular way, why use it only one way for yourself and not for everyone else?
Britany3:09 PM
I'm not sure I understand the question.
Blake3:11 PM
I know that Christ's church was never taken from the Earth, just like the engine in my car. Are you telling me I can not know this?
Britany3:11 PM
We're not saying you can't know about the history of your church. We just believe that although Christ did establish His church on this earth, we believe that the authority that He had to direct the church was removed when He and His Apostles were killed.
Blake3:15 PM
Yes, you believe, you do not know. Correct?
Britany3:15 PM
I know. As we study the Bible you can read that Christ gave His authority to His Apostles so they can teach, heal, and testify in His name. They did not, however give the entirety of His authority to those whom later on joined the church.
Blake3:19 PM
But I know they did. How is that possible for each of us to know two different things that contradict each other?
Britany3:19 PM
Everyone studies differently and in their own way. Some beliefs match others and some don't.
Blake3:20 PM
There, you switched back to beliefs again. Is it knowledge or belief?
Blake3:21 PM
Being that both our items of knowledge contradict each other, doesn't one of them have to be wrong and not actually knowledge?
Britany3:21 PM
It can be both belief and knowledge. May we agree to disagree?
Blake3:24 PM
Saying "it can be both belief and knowledge" does not sound very honest. Doesn't it sound like a technique to deliberately deceive and trick people?
[The chat session has ended.]