Now chatting with: Ashley and Tatum
Ashley9:26 AM
Good morning, Lydia! How are you today?
Lydia9:27 AM
I am well. And you?
Ashley9:27 AM
We are doing well, thanks for asking! What brought you online today?
Lydia9:28 AM
Question. Why do Mormons go door to door trying to lead people away from their faith?
Ashley9:29 AM
As missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our goal isn't to take away anyone's faith! We simply want to add to it and help them strengthen their faith in Christ.
Lydia9:31 AM
Really? A famous Mormon blogger describes this type of missionary activity as leading people away from their faith. Why do famous Mormon bloggers contradict you?
Ashley9:31 AM
I'm a missionary myself and our purpose is to invite others to come unto Christ by helping them learn more about the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. We don't force anyone to join the church, but we invite them to learn with us because we know the gospel can improve the quality of their lives!
Lydia9:35 AM
Who is talking about forcing people? Why would you say that when no one mentioned anything about forcing people? I am not here to force people or argue. Why would famous Mormons describe what you do as hostility and leading people away from their faith?
Tatum9:36 AM
We're not sure! We are on our missions to help people come closer to Christ, as Ashley said. Is that something you're interested in learning more about?
Lydia9:37 AM
Why do your teachings lead Mormons to believe what you do is hostility? Why do your teachings lead to talk about forcing people. Isn't that a hostile topic?
Ashley9:38 AM
We don't force people to do anything, but we go door to door because we know we're offering the truth and people can find that out for themselves by praying and asking Heavenly Father if what we teach is true. We don't expect people to take our word for anything, we know we can discover truth as we take it to God
Lydia9:42 AM
There it is again. You keep resorting to this unChristlike hostility suggesting that someone is asking you about forcing people when no one has done this. Then you falsely accuse people of not praying. Why so much hostility?
[They ended the chat The chat session has ended.]
Now chatting with: Bailey
Bailey10:06 AM
Hey Lydia! How can I help you?
Lydia10:07 AM
Why do Mormons go door to door trying to lead people away from their faith?
Now chatting with: Bailey
Lydia10:12 AM
Hello?
[Bailey ended the chat The chat session has ended.]
Now chatting with: Kennedy
Hi Jane! How are you doing today?
Jane
I'm well thank you. Question. Why do Mormon missionaries go door-to-door trying to lead people away from their faith?
Kennedy
I'm glad to hear! So I'm actually a missionary so we're glad you came on today! We don't try to lead people away from their faith. if anything we are trying to increase their faith. our purpose is to invite others to come closer to Jesus Christ.
Jane
Famous Mormon bloggers disagree with you. They describe what you do has leading people away from faith and they described what you do as hostility, for example attempting to lead people away from their current faith. They describe your proselytizing behavior as hostility that attempts to lead people away from their current faith. Why do they disagree with you? Especially if they the are only relaying what the Mormon church taught them?
Kennedy
Well I'm so sorry that those people feel that way! Honestly. our religion embraces other religions and our leaders work closely with other religious leaders to help people all over the world! What might be causing some of those concerns is that we do believe that our church is the true church of Jesus Christ and that the blessings we receive from our religion are immense! And so yes, we do want other people to receive those blessings, but our goal is not to draw others from what they believe in. We encourage all to follow and choose what's best for them.
Jane
You see, there it is. You just told people the blessings of their current Faith are inferior. The blessings people receive from their faith are immense also. Why so much hostility?
Kennedy
I didn't say that other religions don't bring blessings. We aren't hostile. Everything we do is out of love, and if someone doesn't want to join our faith, that is totally okay!
Jane
You just called other religions false. Yours is true, theirs is false. Do people treat you with hostility?
Kennedy
I didn't. We believe that we have the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. But that doesn't mean that other religions are false and teach wrong doctrine. And yes people sometimes do treat us with hostility.
Jane
For example, questioning the evolution of the first vision story, is that type of question a form of hostility?
Kennedy
No, that isn't hostile. As long as you aren't attacking our beliefs.
Janes
I'll make it simple Kennedy. Are other Christian congregations part of the true Church?
[COMMENT: Kennedy refuses to answer this -- interesting]
So attacking others beliefs is a form of hostility. So you're contradicting yourself. Your beliefs attack other religions as drawing near with their lips and far with their hearts according to you, you engage in this form of hostility.
Kennedy
I don't think it was complicated before. No, we believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the same church that was established when Christ was on the earth. I don't attack others for believing what they believe. That is their choice and that is a right given to them by their Heavenly Father, the right o choose. As missionaries, we are here to help those who would like to learn about our faith. If that doesn't interest someone, I'm not going to attack them, or say they aren't trying to follow Chirst. I'm going to love them and support them in whatever they believe, because that is their right as a human being.
As long as we all respect each other's beliefs and our right to choose what to believe, then it isn't attacking. However if you insult me or my religion, then I think that is done in hostility. It is where your heart is. if your goal is to help me or to learn and gain understanding, then that's totally fine. But if your goal is to hurt and attack, then that is where it becomes hostile.
Jane
So please explain what attacking is then. Because just a moment ago you said questioning the evolution of the first vision story if done in a way of attacking is hostility. Then you describe things that are not attacking, so I'm trying to envision what you had in mind when you said if its done and then attacking way it is hostility please tell me what this is?
Just a moment ago you defined attacking another religion, accusing them of drawing near with your lips but far with their hearts, not an insult or calling them the Church of the Devil or an insulting them by declaring their faith in their priesthood invalid, all not insults. If none of these things are insults, then I have never seen anybody insult the Mormons. Yet you are telling me people insult Mormons and attack them with hostility, so please give me an example so I know what you are talking about.
Kennedy
I'm not saying that there aren't members of the church that might not be hostile. But Im saying that isn't our goal. No one is perfect, but I don't think that sharing our beliefs is insulting. I don't think that if I said, "We believe we are the one true church of Jesus Christ", that it would not be insulting. I think it would be insulting and hostile if I said "We believe we are the one true church on the earth and every other church is of the devil" That would be hostile.
Jane
But that is exactly what the Book of Mormon says. There are only two churches only the true church and all others are of the devil. That is exaclty what the book of Mormon says so you have me extremely confused now Kennedy
Kennedy
What the scripture means is you either follow Christ, or you don't. We believe that our religion is the one way to follow Christ exactly . That doesn't mean we think all other religions are bad.
Jane
I asked for an example then the example you gave was exactly what the book of Mormon does. You have only quibbled over the meaning, a type of quibbling anybody can do to absolve themselves of a charge of insulting or attacking.
So why do you feel persecuted, like you have been attacked time and again, when you can't give him an example of something that you yourself don't do to others also.
It seems that your theology leads you to a persecution complex where you feel like your persecuted but you have never treated others that way.
Kennedy
I'll put it this way, since were just going in circles here. Im not saying that other faith have never been persecuted. Every religion on this whole planet has been persecuted at some point or other. And Im not saying that members of our church have never been a part of that persecution because Im sure it happens if we go back to your original question, as missionaries, our goal is not to lead people away from their faith. Our purpose is to help those who have a desire to learn more about it and join our faith to achieve those things . Our purpose is not to bash with other people about who is right who is wrong , but to love everyone as child of God and help them do what they feel is correct and true. We are not here to put down anyone or their religion
Jane
Welcome to the club. You are indeed going in circles and avoiding a basic items. Fact is your religion teaches that you engage in your definition of attacking with hostility and then teaches you to deny it. That fact is the sort of dishonesty that takes you further from Christ and results in you going in circles. I dare you to hang up this chat now and run further away from Christ.
Honesty, however, would have you admit that other people who are harmonizing intellect and faith and question things that don't add up to the facts are not being hostile or attacking or trying to lead you away from faith anymore than you yourself are. It is evil, absolutely evil, to falsely accuse others of hostility.
Kennedy
We don't teach that. Im sorry but we don't. The only reason I would leave this chat with you is because you aren't willing to have a open heart and as a missionary, I am on the Lord's time and would not like to waste His time on someone that I cannot help. But yes. Everyone on this planet has been persecuted and we understand that . People aren't perfect. But as a whole, our church does not persecute others. Im being open and honest, and you are trying to funnel me into a lie. We are all children of God and all of us are just trying to make it back to him. You have a way that you are doing it and I have away that I am doing it and I don't think we should be angry or upset with others for doing what they believe.
Jane
Falsely accusing of not have a open heart and funneling you into a lie takes you further and further from Christ, Kennedy. I am so sorry you feel that way and choose to behave in this way. Leaving this chat is a confession that you do not wish to come closer to Christ and yes, when you are ready to repent and ask forgiveness I'll freely forgive you, but you cannot be forgiven and go to heaven until you ask for my forgiveness. That's just the way of a perfect God operates.
So far I think you have made tremendous progress Kennedy. You have come to realize the despicable awful nature Mormons fall into sometimes and falsely accusing people of hostility in attacking their faith for doing nothing more than what Mormons themselves do. I think you've learned from this and therefore I helped you tremendously come closer to Christ. There is more progress to be made and we can do it if only you wish to try, Kennedy.
Kennedy
Last time I checked I haven't left chat yet. "I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." I don't feel that what I have said is wrong or unrighteous. Im sorry you feel that Im not following Jesus Christ, but if you do feel that way I would recommend not using the chat anymore, since all of us here are sincerely trying to follow Christ and not waste the time of the missionaries of the Lord. If you have a desire to learn more about what we believe or to become a member of this church, feel free to return, but anything outside of that is not the role of a missionary. Im sorry that you feel that we are hostile, despicable, and awful, but I also feel that we are not hostile, despicable, and awful, but I also feel that that is an opinion you are not willing to change, and I am going to choose not to associate with people who believe those things about me. God loves you Jane and I hope you are able to continue to follow Jesus Christ in righteous wholesome ways. Not arguing with a missionary online. Thank you so much for coming to the chat today. I hope I was able to help you, even in some sort of small way. I hope you enjoy your life and continue progressing on the path back to Him.
Jane
Im on the Lord's time Kennedy and I will always choose to associate with you and I will always forgive you when your are ready to repent and ask for forgiveness I cannot forgive you if you do not ask. Kennedy why do you falsely accuse others? Why do you feel like your false accusation do not take you further from Christ?
Why are you the great accuser? Your accusation are the result of tremendous contradictions in that they require you to accuse yourself which you do not which is called hypocrisy and hypocrisy takes you further from Christ. Jesus associated with the reprobates, the tax collectors, the prostitutes and if we follow Christ's example, we associate with these people so that we can help them. Ive helped you so far but now you wish to be damned stopping all further progress. I know you can find it with in yourself to progress some more.
Kennedy
If you wish to help others, please do so through your own channels. But please do not come on our website to try to help us. We respect your beliefs and we love and forgive. All we ask is that you respect ours as well. Because this has become an argumentative and hostile chat, our policy requires that I leave the chat. Please enjoy your day Jane.
Jane
Kennedy why do you need to be argumentative and hostile. Im here to help you with love. This chat is to help brings others closer to Christ and if you choose not to do that I understand but why are you here then? I must thank you for your eventual honesty, Kennedy. Maybe you can take some introspection and think about what it is that lead you to be hostile and argumentative as you describe yourself. I know I have been able to avoid hostility and argumentation by looking towards the Savior and being sensitive to the Spirit. Maybe you can think how you were led to be as you say, augmentative and hostile. When you fell argumentative and hostile, Kennedy, that means you have done something to offend the Spirit. What is it that you think you did?
Kennedy
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2014/10/loving-others-and-living-with-differences?lang=eng
Jane
That a great article. Now how can you implement some of those things more in your life
[Kennedy ended the chat]
Now chatting with: Karlee and Omayra
Karlee
Hey Jane what can I help you with?
Jane
I was just chatting with Kennedy. I tried my best to help him come closer to Christ and we made a little bit of progress. But he did indicate that some of the teachings that he believed for so long caused him to resort to hostility and argumentation and drew him away form the Spirit. What do yo think we can do to help him?
Karlee
What teachings did Kennedy indicate that drew him away from the spirit if you don't mind me asking.
Jane
You will have to ask Kennedy. He said that he was being augmentative and hostile. He hung up the chat out of anger, confessing that he did not want to come closer to Christ.
Karlee
Sometimes it happens that someone is just not ready yet to come closer to Christ. It's a bummer but it happens. All we can do is continue to be good examples and pray for that person.
Jane
I know. I hope he can be ready someday he was full of false accusations against others declaring that they didn't have a open heart, etc.
Question can you give me an example of what hostility is or what an insult to Mormons would be?
Karlee
I think any type of hostility to any religion not just member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is attacking their beliefs because of an opinion or because someone doesn't like what another person is saying.
Jane
Oh like saying the professors of other religions are all corrupt and draw near to God with their lips and far with their hearts, or belong to the Church of the devil that would be a form of hostility?
Karlee
The definition of hostility is hostile behavior" unfriendliness or opposition or in other words bitterness or unfriendliness. That is hostility
Jane
So the Mormons are also hostile. According to that definition.
Karlee
No . I only gave the definition of hostility
Jane
So no one's hostile. Im confused can you give me an example?
Karlee
When someone is hostile they have hostile behavior, unfriendliness or opposition or in other words bitterness
Jane
Ok so it sounds like you have no example. I gave you an example of how Mormons are hostile, declaring other Christians priesthood invalid where other Christians don't do that to Mormons. Other Christians don't declare Momron's priesthood invalid. This hostility of declaring other Christians priesthood invalid takes you further from Christ.
Karlee
I sorry Jane but I am not here to argue Let me ask you this, what is your definition of of hostility?
Jane
Karlee, I am sorry you feel you need to argue. I don't do that. I don't aruge. If that is all you can do then I am sorry you weren't able to come closer to Christ. Im only here to help people come closer to Christ and not aruge. I am sorry you that you have declared you need to argue. Can you try again to overcome your desire to argue?
[Karlee ended the chat]
Now chatting with: Angelica
Angelica5:33 PM
Hello Lisa how are you?
Lisa5:33 PM
Hi Angelica, what a beautiful name. How are you?
Angelica5:34 PM
That's very kind of you. I am good. How can we help you today?
Lisa5:36 PM
Question. Why do Mormons always verbally abuse others, falsely accusing them of not praying and being insincere, lacking real intent. Is just part of a culture of hate?
Angelica5:37 PM
That sounds very sad. What gives the impression members of the Church of Jesus Christ treat people like that?
Lisa5:41 PM
No impression. Just a fact. Mormons chronically accuse others of lacking sincerity and real intent and not praying. Fact is millions of Christians have prayed about the Book of Mormon with sincerity and real intent and the Spirit told them that the Book is true like the parables of Jesus, made up, but with a good moral. Mormons tell these people this is not possible. Telling them this is not possible is accusing them of being liars and attacking them. Why so much hate?
Angelica5:43 PM
"Fact is millions of Christians have prayed about the Book of Mormon with sincerity and real intent and the Spirits has told them that the Book is true like the parables of Jesus, made up, but with a good moral. Mormons tell these people this is not possible. "
I am a little confused Lisa. Are you saying that we DON'T want people to pray with sincerity and it's not possible to know the truth through the Spirit?
Lisa5:46 PM
No Angelica. I am saying people have prayed with sincerity and real intent and the Spirit does not tell them the events of the Book of Mormon were actual events and Mormons are accusing them of being liars. Why so much hate?
Angelica5:48 PM
Lisa, you're accusing 16 million members of the church of Jesus Christ that they're liars and haters. Have you ever been to one of their church services?
Lisa5:52 PM
Nice try to flip what I wrote. I never once said Mormons were lying when they say the feel the Spirit. As you know, I am not accusing any one of being a liar. I am accusing them of accusing others and being confused -- of misinterpreting the Spirit and repeating cultural words without thinking about them first. Do you understand the differences between calling someone a liar and calling someone confused?
Angelica5:54 PM
That's good to hear. It would be very inaccurate to call them as such. I am grateful you clarified.
Lisa5:54 PM
But that is exactly what Mormons do to other Christians. Mormons are calling others liars when they say the Spirit does not tell them the events of the BoM actually happened. Mormons say this because those Christians do not have sincerity and real intent. Why so much hate?
Angelica5:55 PM
You keep on saying "why so much hate?"
My question is, why are you asking me? I haven't seen any such hate or anything of the sort when it comes to people not having that answer to know whether the Book of Mormon is true. If they don't feel that, I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong and they need to try harder. From my perspective, your question is very offensive and honestly I feel very sad to hear that you think this way.
If you're wondering about this, go and ask God. He knows all things, and I know He can help you with your questions.
I hope you have a great day Lisa.
[The chat session has ended. Angelica ended the Chat -- Though she says: "I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong and they need to try harder" she immediately does just that "go and ask God" -- try harder until tis enough and you finally have the answer she wants.]
Now chatting with: Chalet and Haylie
Chalet6:05 PM
Hi Lisa! How can I help you today?
Lisa6:06 PM
What do you tell someone that says they have prayed about the BoM with sincerity and real intent and the Spirit indicated to them that the events of the Book of Mormon did not actually happen?
Chalet6:07 PM
Before answering this question. i have a question, what initially interested you in reading it?
Lisa6:09 PM
I like to read. Why?
Chalet6:09 PM
I was just curious. Who introduced it to you?
Lisa6:10 PM
Are you not going to answer?
Chalet6:11 PM
What would you be willing to give if you did receive a witness that the Book of Mormon is true?
Lisa6:12 PM
I see you are refusing to answer the question. Why? Very interesting. The question makes you uncomfortable. Why?
Chalet6:13 PM
I have received a witness from the Spirit that it is indeed true. I think I am just trying to understand your perspective a little better.
Lisa6:14 PM
You still are not answering the question. Why does the Spirit tell other people the events did not actually happened? You are then calling them liars. Why?
Chalet6:14 PM
Hmm. . . this is an interesting question. When we know certain things are true, our Heavenly Father holds us to a different standard. What you be willing to change or sacrifice certain things if you did know that the Book of Mormon is true?
[COMMENT: This key right here, What Chalet is doing right here is the core of the Mormon system of manipulation. A person had this vague warm feeling devoid of interpretation all humans experience sometimes. Then it is not only manipulated by the Mormon cultural to be interpreted the way they wish, it is manipulated to control behavior. The person who had an infrequent human experience, is told they have to do what Chalet says or they are an even worse person than before. Chalet is just repeating a pattern of manipulation that was used on her and it is usually justified by suggesting surrendering one's will to a well-intentioned organization's bidding, instead of their own, never led someone to depression and suicide -- while true for some people, it is a statistically debatable justification]
Lisa6:18 PM
Chalet, you are not answering my questions so why should I answer yours? Though you are being belligerent and refusing to answer my questions I will answer yours. But then you need to answer mine. My answer to your question, I would do what ever the same Spirit that told me the truth (not another person) asked me too. Now, please answer my question. Why does the Spirit tell other people it is not not true? Why are you calling them liars?
Chalet6:22 PM
Okay! I admire your willingness to follow the Spirit. Would you be willing to read it again?
Lisa6:24 PM
I have answered your questions, but you are refusing to answer mine. This proves you do not possess sincerity and real intent, and therefore are mis-interpreting the Spirit.
Chalet6:25 PM
In fact, we could study it with you. I know that the witness that I received from the Spirit was undeniable. I will not deny it. I want you to have that same experience with God's word.
Lisa6:27 PM
That is great, but the fact you are not answering my questions proves you are mis-interpreting the Spirit. The Spirit gave you a powerful, undeniable feeling, a warmth, etc. However, that is not the Spirit telling you the events actually happened. It is like the parables of Jesus, true, but made up. The fact you are refusing to answer my questions proves you know this is true.
In fact the LDS Church has admitted as much. The LDS Church used to interpret the undeniable feeling of the Spirit as meaning the Lamanites as the principal ancestors of the Native Americans. The LDS Church now says that interpretation was wrong.
Chalet6:29 PM
The Spirit testifies of all truth. The truth of the matter is that the Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ. Have you felt closer to Christ as you have read it?
Lisa6:29 PM
No one disagrees with you that testifies of Christ. The parables of Jesus testify of Christ. The Strangite scriptures testify of Christ. I could go on.
Chalet6:30 PM
Have you felt closer to Christ as you have read the Book of Mormon?
Lisa6:30 PM
No one disagrees with you that the BoM testifies of Christ. The fact you feel the need to change the subject further proves you know the things I have said are true. I felt closer to Christ reading the BoM, the Koran (which testifies that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah), and the Strangite scriptures. Have you read the Koran?
Chalet6:33 PM
All are invited to read and pray to know if the Book of Mormon is true. I know that for me, I will NEVER deny the Spirit that revealed to me its truth. I am not sure as to why you may not have received that same witness, perhaps that is a more personal question to consider. I respect your opinion and willingness to defend what you believe, I feel that unites us in a way. I would invite you to read it again, pray again, there might be something you need to learn in your pursuit of what is true.
[COMMENT: Did not Angelica before Chalet say she would never tell someone they are wrong and need to try harder, look what Chalet is doing.]
Lisa6:39 PM
I don't believe. I know Chalet. No one is asking you to deny anything, only interpret correctly. I invite you to pray again and interpret the Spirit correctly. The LDS Church has already told your interpretation is wrong. Listen to the Church, the Lamanites are not the principal ancestors of the Native Americans, you made a mistake Chalet. I know you can overcome your natural man tendency to deny truth by dismissing facts as opinions.
Chalet6:43 PM
Thank you for your opinion, but I would like to bear you my testimony that I know that the Book of Mormon is true, and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Christ's church here upon this earth. I have learned this truth throughout my life, the Spirit has testified this to me and once again will NOT deny it. You can know this truth too, but we won't force you to. God has given us the agency to choose.
Lisa6:43 PM
Opinion? What opinion?
Chalet6:43 PM
Have a wonderful day ma'am.
Lisa6:44 PM
You just call me a liar. Why so much hate?
[Chalet ended the chat]