Miles 9:56 AM
Good morning.
Now chatting with: Jokzany
Jokzany 10:07 AM
Hello Miles, good morning
Jokzany 10:07 AM
how are you?
Miles 10:14 AM
I am well and you?
Jokzany 10:18 AM
I'm great thank you
Jokzany 10:18 AM
Nice to meet you, my name is Jokzany
Jokzany 10:18 AM
I am a missionary from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I would love to help you with any question you have
Miles 10:21 AM
Question, can you show me an example in the Bible or Book of Mormon of a person needing to be re-baptized, because those that baptized them did not have proper or valid preisthood?
Jokzany 10:23 AM
There's not an example in the book of Mormon of someone who was re-baptized, how ever there are some examples of the need of the priesthood in order to be able to baptize
Jokzany 10:24 AM
for example, when Christ came: 3 Nephi 11:18-21
Miles 10:25 AM
Wasn't Nephi baptizing people before this event?
Jokzany 10:32 AM
yes, give us one minute, thank you
Now chatting with: Jokzany and Sukey
Jokzany 10:36 AM
I'm back miles, thank you for wating
Jokzany 10:42 AM
We know he had power and authority " 17 And he did minister many things unto them; and all of them cannot be written, and a part of them would not suffice, therefore they are not written in this book. And Nephi did minister with power and with great authority." 3 Nephi 7:17
Jokzany 10:43 AM
And we are not sure why Christ gave him authority again
Miles 10:44 AM
What is the "keystone" of your religion?
Jokzany 10:48 AM
before that, we have a question, why did you have that question about Nephi?
Miles 10:49 AM
I don't recall a question about Nephi. I had a question about re-baptism. Why? Was there something wrong with my question?
Jokzany 10:50 AM
oh sorry, there was nothing wrong with your question, we just wanted to know how did you get that question :)
Miles 10:57 AM
Hello?
Miles 11:01 AM
Did my questions offend you?
Sukey 11:02 AM
no no
Sukey 11:02 AM
of course not we were just curious
Sukey 11:03 AM
:)
Miles 11:04 AM
I am confused. You said you would answer the question about "keystone". I have been waiting. If the question does not offend you, why won't you answer it?
Jokzany 11:07 AM
no reason, I just wanted to know more about your question, but the key stone of our religion is he Book of Mormon. We love answering you questions, how ever if you want to contend we can't help much.
Miles 11:10 AM
Why would you say "how ever if you want to contend we can't help much" is that an accusation? Isn't it contentious of you to accuse someone of being contentious?
Jokzany 11:11 AM
not an accusation, just for the way you've been answering, but if you have any other question we would love to keep helping you
Jokzany 11:12 AM
how ever we need to leave now, but we can keep talking through google hang outs or facebook messenger, would you like that?
Miles 11:13 AM
So it is not an accusation, but a possible accusation? What way do you feel I have been answering?
Jokzany 11:13 AM
sorry, can we keep talking on google hang outs? my email is jokzany.chong@missionary.org
Miles 11:14 AM
I sorry you feel the way you do and only wish to be contentious. If you would like to come closer to Christ another day, we can chat.
Jakzany ended the chat.
Miles 11:33 AM
Hi
Now chatting with: En-Chi
En-Chi 11:34 AM
Hi How are you?
En-Chi 11:34 AM
This is En-Chi. How can we help you today?
Miles 11:35 AM
Hi. What is the "keystone" of your religion and what does "keystone" mean?
En-Chi 11:35 AM
That is a good question! So the keystone is the center stone of the arch, without it the arch will crash down. The keystone of our religion is the Book of Mormon. By the way, have you ever heard about the Book of Mormon before?
Miles 11:38 AM
Yes I have. So keystone is like when Jesus said to Peter upon this rock I will build by Church.
Now chatting with: En-Chi and Sariah
Miles 11:39 AM
How is the Book of Mormon the rock or keystone of your religion. Doesn't the Book of Mormon have very little to with the rejection of other Christian's priesthood?
Miles 11:40 AM
Isn't the rejection of other Christian's priesthood the key to your theology, after Christ?
En-Chi 11:41 AM
Yeah Because the Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ and it emphasizes a lot on the Atonement of Jesus Christ and how we can do to follow His example. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon before?
Miles 11:42 AM
Again, yes I have. Isn't the rejection of other Christian's priesthood the key to your theology, after Christ?
Sariah 11:42 AM
You mean the apostasy? That is an important point, but what you may not have understood is that we believe that God has called prophets again in our time, just like He did a long time ago. He has given them revelation about His plan and what we need to do to return to live with Him someday, as well as the power and authority to act in Christ's name for the salvation of God's children. The Book of Mormon is evidence of this restoration because if Joseph Smith (the first prophet in our times) was able to translate it by the power of God, then the other things he taught about the gospel of Jesus Christ are true as well. The Book of Mormon is another witness that Jesus Christ suffered and died for us so that we can change. I know it's true because the Holy Ghost has taught me that as I've read it. Does that make sense?
Miles 11:52 AM
"if Joseph Smith ... was able to translate it by the power of God, then the other things he taught about the gospel of Jesus of Christ are true as well" That is not exactly true. The Bible says false prophets can perform miracles. Plus your statement falsely suggests that Joseph Smith was infallible. I don't think you believe in the doctrine of infallibility. I am not here to argue, but I don't think your statement was accurate. It appears that we agree your rejection of other Christian's priesthood (what you are calling apostasy) is the true keystone of your religion. Is the pope then a false prophet?
Sariah 11:52 AM
We are not here to argue either. We are not saying that Joseph Smith was perfect but we are saying that someone good WOULDN'T pretend they had translated a book of scripture if it were not true and someone who had evil intents COULDN'T translate something that so clearly invites us to become better people and come unto Christ.
Miles 11:57 AM
That is not accurate according to the Mormons. Joseph Smith's successor James Strang translated a record called the Book of the Law of the Lord. The LDS reject it. According to your reasoning James Strang must be a prophet because he translated a records that testifies of Christ.
Miles 11:59 AM
The Koran is yet another example. The LDS reject it as scripture, but according to your reasoning, the Koran must be scripture because it testifies that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary and will Jesus will return someday.
Sariah 11:59 AM
Miles, we aren't here to argue with you. We know that if you look at the fruits of what Joseph Smith did and pray and ask God to know for yourself if what we are saying is true, you can know. This is how we know.
We hope you are able to do this because the peace that comes from knowing that Jesus Christ has restored the gospel is wonderful. If you want to study about receiving answers to prayers, you can look at James 1:5-6 (New Testament) and Moroni 10:3-5 (Book of Mormon.)
tSariah ended the chat.
mILES 12:04 PM
Hi
Now chatting with: Brenda and Logan
Logan 12:04 PM
Hi! How are you?
mILES 12:06 PM
I am well. I was just chatting with Sariah, but she end chat because she said she could not chat without arguing. Why do missionaries only want to argue and why do they think it is wrong of themselves to argue?
Logan 12:07 PM
That is a good question. The simple answer is that we follow the example of Jesus Christ. He taught. those that heard, heard. Those that did not hear did not hear. We want to help others come closer to Christ. We teach of him, we talk of Him, and we help others follow Him! When there are disagreements we are fulfilling that purpose. you see?
Logan 12:09 PM
So why did you come to chat with us?
Logan 12:11 PM
not* fulfilling that purpose
mILES 12:12 PM
Jesus argued all the time, so helping people come truth is definitely the example of Jesus. I came to chat about re-baptism, but Jokzany said he or she only wanted to be contentious, then Sariah said she only wanted to argue.
mILES 12:13 PM
The "keystone" of your theology appears to be a rejection of other Christian's priesthood. Sariah thought maybe the Book of Mormon was the keystone, but she could not explain how. Jokzany agreed that there is no example in the Bible or Book of Mormon of a Christian needing to be re-baptized because the Christian priesthood that baptized them had "invalid" or "inproper" priesthood.
mILES 12:15 PM
What is the "keystone", other than Christ, of your religion and why?
Logan 12:15 PM
That is a great question. I will do my best to explain simply. We know that this is the church of Jesus Christ in it's fullness once again restored on the earth. How we know that is through the Book of Mormon. If you read the Book of Mormon with real intent wanting to know of it's truth and you receive a testimony of it's truth then you know that Joseph Smith was truly called by God to be a prophet and to the the instrument in God's hands to restore his original church to this earth again. So if the Book of Mormon is true than the Joseph Smith was a prophet and this is God's church. His true church.
mILES 12:21 PM
Of course the Book of Mormon is true, just like the parables of Jesus.
Logan 12:22 PM
have you read the Book of Mormon?
mILES 12:23 PM
But Joseph being a prophet is not want your religion is about, it is about declaring all other Churches with invalid priesthood. In sound reasoning it is called non-sequitur to say Joseph has priesthood, therefore the Methodist or Presbyterians do not.
mILES 12:23 PM
Yes i have read the book of mormon and I know it is true, just like the parables of Jesus are true.
Logan 12:23 PM
Wow! I am so happy you like the Book of Mormon. What did you like about it?
mILES 12:25 PM
That God is no respecter of persons. What does God is no respecter of persons mean to you?
Logan 12:27 PM
To me? Great question. I see it as that we are all God's children. His love is great and every soul is of great worth! So to me it means that we can all come to Him and partake of His love and Gospel! Does that make sense? What do you think it is? I would love to know!
mILES 12:30 PM
To me it means that who a person is related to does not matter. The faithful followers of Christ that are faithfully baptized by other faithful are counted in Gods Church. Like Paul said, we are all one body of Christ and it does not matter which Christian baptized you, because like the BoM says, God is no respecter of persons.
Logan 12:30 PM
Oh i see! So your concern is "why do I need to be baptized again?"...may i ask. have you met with missionaries before? :)
mILES 12:33 PM
Yes I have met with missionaries. I don't have a concern. The Spirit testifies strongly to trust Him and not men. The Spirit testifies that God is no respecter of persons. The question was regarding keystone. It appears we have identified the ideological keystone of the LDS Church, that God IS a respecter of persons.
Logan 12:33 PM
Okay! Thank you for telling me. So you know that the Book of Mormon is true. that the missionaries speak of truth. therefore you know that the Church of jesus christ of Latter day Saints is true. So, what is stopping you from being baptized?
mILES 12:35 PM
You didn't listen very well. I said the Spirit speaks of truth and not necessarily men. The missionaries are fallible imperfect human beings. Why do you argue so much.
mILES 12:36 PM
The LDS church is true and the Catholic church, Methodist, and Prestbyian churches are all true, there is no need to be baptized in all of them and there is no hurt either and I have been baptized in all them.
mILES 12:37 PM
Is there anything else I can help you with Logan?
Logan 12:38 PM
You are right. men are imperfect. So are you and so am i. We have to discern by the spirit what is truth! Wow you have been baptized in all of them? Even the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints?
mILES 12:38 PM
What does it mean to you to have an open mind?
Logan 12:41 PM
Oh you don't need to help me with anything. I am very happy with my relationship with God. It seems that you study him as well! I am glad. An open mind...good question! i see it as having charity to love everyone. to respect and to learn different cultures, ideas, and thoughts. But it does not mean that I am going to be apart of all of these cultures, ideas, or beliefs. I am happy. very Happy with my belief. i know that It is true. I respect other religions and faiths. They do good things and have amazing people inside. they hold truth. But not all of it. I know that the Church of Jesus Christ has the fullness of the truth and His gospel. I am glad you have an open mind to read the Book of Mormon. I hope that you are able to continue to learn more! :)
mILES 12:42 PM
You don't have faith? That is unfortunate. Logan, it is unfortunate you chose to not live by faith. Faith is necessary part of the gospel. I invite you to come closer to Christ, via faith. I know that if you exercise faith, with sincerity and real intent, you can come closer to Christ.
Logan 12:46 PM
Miles..that is odd that you think that. Thank you for the invitation though. Have a wonderful day! :)
mILES 12:47 PM
Odd?
Logan ended the chat session.
MIles 12:51 PM
Hi
Now chatting with: Derek and Stephen
MIles 12:53 PM
Hi was just chatting with Brenda and Logan, though Brenda did not chat much. Logan indicated that the Spirit tells him that God IS a respecter of persons and that faith is not a necessary part of the gospel. Is these typical LDS belief?
Stephen 12:54 PM
No, we do not believe in either of those. We believe that God is no respecter of persons as the Bible and Book of Mormon clearly teach. The Bible and Book of Mormon also clearly teach that faith is necessary for our salvation. Did he seem to indicate that we as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe otherwise?
MIles 12:57 PM
Yes, he is a missionary on this chat site.
MIles 12:57 PM
He says he lives by knowledge, not faith, that he "knows" the LDS church is "true".
Stephen 12:57 PM
I'm so sorry you were in contact with someone who told you that; the way I've heard it explained to me is false doctrine. We believe that faith is essential and that God loves everyone equally. Our religious texts teach this clearly.
MIles 1:01 PM
Right, I know. Logan agree that the Bible and BoM have no example of a Christian needing to be rebaptized because the Christian priest that baptized them did not have "proper" or "valid" priesthood. He also acknowledge that Paul said it does not matter which Christian baptizes another Christian, but Logan said the LDS belief is that no matter how faithful a Christian is, that it matters which Christian baptizes them, making God a respecter of persons.
Stephen 1:03 PM
Okay... What do you think about all that?
MIles 1:04 PM
I think that God is no respecter of persons and the Spirit confirms this. What do you think about it?
Stephen 1:04 PM
I completely agree and our Church teaches this.
MIles 1:06 PM
I am confused. It appears that it does not.
Stephen 1:06 PM
Why is that?
MIles 1:07 PM
What part did you not understand?
Stephen 1:07 PM
Are you saying that our Church appears not to believe that God is a respecter of persons because of references this man gave you?
MIles 1:08 PM
No. Because which Christian baptizes another matters. Righteous living, faith, none of that matter, if your special relation did not baptize you. That is the definition of respecter of persons.
Stephen 1:10 PM
What we mean when we say that God is no respecter of persons is that He offers salvation to everyone, no matter who they are or where they come from. Just because one cannot be baptized by anyone, only by one who has authority, does not mean God prefers the one with authority to the other. Authority to baptize is entirely independent of salvation and personal closeness to God. Does that help?
MIles 1:14 PM
Your definition of respecter of persons is different than everyone else. Changing definitions does not help.
Stephen 1:14 PM
Could you help me understand your definition of respecter of persons? What I know to be true is that God loves everyone and will give everyone an equal opportunity to be saved.
MIles 1:15 PM
At any rate, this rejection of other Christian's priesthood appears to be the key theology of your church, other than Christ.
MIles 1:18 PM
Everyone else understands respecter as treating people according to there status, who they are related too, etc., as I already explained. To declared a faithful, obedient Christian's baptism invalid/improper because it was not performed by the LDS church is the definition of respecter of persons.
Stephen 1:20 PM
We aren't here to argue, I don't want to clash opinions. I believe that God loves all people and that they all have equal opportunity to be saved. I agree that God does not accept all baptisms done by Christians that are trying their best. But He gives them all the chance to be saved through baptism regardless. I really am not here to argue, what can I do for you to help you draw closer to Christ?
MIles 1:22 PM
I am sorry you feel the need to argue. That is unfortunate. To draw closer to Christ you will need to discern the Spirit. The Spirit testifies strongly that God is no respecter of persons and I know that that if you pray with sincerity and real intent you will come to the understanding that the BoM and the apostle Paul's testimony that it does not matter which Christian baptizes you is a true principle of God not being a respecter of persons. Have I helped you come closer to Christ?
Stephen 1:23 PM
I personally hold different views, I am sorry our views don't align.
MIles 1:25 PM
View? About definitions of words? Or about God being a respecter of persons? Or about the Spirit?
Stephen 1:27 PM
I've already shared my views. It's okay if you disagree.
MIles 1:28 PM
So you don't know how to clarify. That is OK. I am not sure we disagree. I think you saw a contradiction in your "view" and are afraid to address it. You do not wish to clarify. because that would mean coming to terms with a contradiction. That is OK. Contradictions can be big scary monsters and sometimes the best thing to do is run away.
Stephen 1:30 PM
If my view didn't come across clearly enough, I'm sorry. My view is that God loves all people. My belief is that authority is necessary to baptize. I believe that the Spirit teaches of truth. I believe that Peter's definition of "respecter of persons" is the definition with which I agree when I say that God is no respecter of persons. I'm not here to have my beliefs attacked and barraged. If this is all you want to do, then me being here is useless.
MIles 1:35 PM
I am sorry you feel that stating the fact that your definition of respecter is different that everyone else's is an attack and barrage. I am sorry you can not see the contradiction in declaring Christian priesthood as invalid/improper is a much greater attack and barrage than any thing I have done here.
MIles 1:37 PM
I sorry you wish to only attack and barrage Christians (by your own definition). If you take the time to mediate, ponder, and listen to the Spirit with real intent and sincerity you come to recognize the way you have behaved is exactly what you accuse others of. I know if you do this you can come closer to Christ. Have I helped you come closer to Christ?
Stephen 1:38 PM
This conversation is not why I am here, I'm sorry. Take care and have a good day. I know that God loves everyone, that He is no respecter of persons, and that the Book of Mormon, a book that teaches about Jesus Christ, God, and their love for all, is true.
MIles 1:39 PM
Me too.
Stephen ended the chat.