https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/book-of-mormon-geography?lang=eng
Now chatting with: Chalet and Haylie
Haylie5:16 PM
Hey Martin! How are you?
Martin5:17 PM
I am well. I was just watching a youtube video of a Mormon Missionary saying the Book of Mormon is like the parables of Jesus, made up but true. Is that correct?
Haylie5:17 PM
I'm not quite sure what video you are referring to, but we know that the Book of Mormon is a true Book that brings us closer to Christ!
Martin5:21 PM
Is it made up but true, like the parables of Jesus?
Haylie5:21 PM
It is accounts of different Prophets who lived in the ancient America's. They wrote down their true experiences that they had with Jesus Christ, and different experiences that shaped their faith!
And now, thousands of years later, we are able to learn from their experiences and grow our faith in Jesus Christ as well!
Martin5:24 PM
Where in the ancient America's?
Haylie5:25 PM
I'll be honest I'm not sure what the ancient america's were like back then
Martin5:29 PM
So it doesn't matter whether they were real or not, we can still learn from their experiences and grow our faith in Jesus Christ as well. Is that correct?
Haylie5:36 PM
I think that knowing that it is true helps us have a deeper understanding and faith in Jesus Christ!
Martin5:38 PM
I am not understanding your answer. You are saying it is made up, but true, just the like the parables of Jesus?
Haylie5:39 PM
No I would never say that, because I know without a doubt that it is true, and that every thing that is recorded throughout the Book of Mormon actually happened!
Martin5:40 PM
But you don't know where in ancient America it occured. So how do you know without a doubt?
Haylie5:40 PM
Because I have read the Book of Mormon many times, and every single time I do, the Holy Ghost witnesses of the truth to me.
Martin5:41 PM
Just like the parables of Jesus? The Holy Ghost also witness to the truth of the parables of Jesus. Also, if you have no doubt, then you don't have faith.
Haylie5:42 PM
I wouldn't know if it was true if I didn't have faith! I never personally saw these Prophets, I never personally saw the plates that these records were written on. But the Holy Ghost has testified to me the truth, and I know without a doubt that all of these things that I haven't seen, are true.
Martin5:45 PM
The same Holy Ghost testifies that the made up parables of Jesus are true. So we have established that the Holy Ghost testimony doesn't the story tells if the story is made up or not, only that the Morals of the story are true.
Haylie5:45 PM
Have you ever received an answer to prayers Martin?
Martin5:47 PM
All the time. Silly question. I have seen myself and other people misinterpret an answer. You are clearly misinterpreting an answer for something else. Just because the Spirit has testified to you the best course of action for you personally is to be Mormon does not mean the parables of Jesus actually happen, just like the alegory of the BoM being true doesn't mean the the BoM actually happened.
So what you are saying is you have no reason for knowing that BoM actually happened. Does it matter?
Haylie5:51 PM
Well that's amazing that you have received answers to prayers!
But Martin I have specifically prayed to know if the Book of Mormon is true. If these events actually happened. And I received my answer! No misinterpretation, no confusion, not a shadow of doubt. I do know and forever will know that it is true! And that knowledge and witness is extended to ANY honest seeker of truth. Anyone who reads and prays with real intent can know the truth
Martin5:52 PM
If that is true, then you have to belief that the nature of God is such that God engages in massive conspiracies to deceive men, because all the scientific evidence is that it did not occur.
But the fact that the same Sprit that tells us the made up parables are true is the only evidence you are giving proves you are confused.
Haylie5:53 PM
Well if we had every scientific evidence and answer, where would the need be for faith? Would you believe in it even then?
Martin5:53 PM
Haha. You just said you have no doubt, which means you do not have faith. Yes I believe in it. Just like I believe in the parables of Jesus. You are the one struggling with your testimony
The LDS Church has confessed it was wrong. It no longer says the the laminates are the principal ancestors of the native Americas and people like you said the Spirit told them they were the principals ancestors. Even the LDS Church has said people like you are wrong.
Haylie5:57 PM
Well Martin, we invite you to sincerely read the Book of Mormon and pray to know the truth! You don't only have to believe, but you can KNOW for yourself. That's a promise God has given all of His children! It's been really nice talking with you and we hope you have a great day!
Martin5:58 PM
I have. I invite you to listen better.
[They ended the chat]
Now chatting with: Marcie and Nathalia
Marcie6:21 PM
Hi Martin! What can I do for you today?
Martin6:25 PM
I was just chatting with Chalet and Haylie. They could not answer some questions.
Martin6:26 PM
We established that the BoM is true like the parables of Jesus and that the LDS Church informed Mormons who believed the Spirit told them the Laminates were the principal ancestors of Native American they are confused.
Chalet and Haylie could not say whether or not it matter if the events of the BoM actually or if they were just made up like the parables of Jesus.
Does it matter if they are made up or not?
Marcie6:28 PM
Just like the Bible is a record of people that lived in the Holy Land, the Book of Mormon is a record of the people living in Ancient America.
Martin6:29 PM
But unlike the Bible there really isn't any significant scientific evidence of this. But that doesn't answer my question, does it? The question was: Does it matter?
Marcie6:30 PM
It matters to me because I have found it to be true. But I can't force anyone else to care about it or believe it. Does that make sense?
Martin6:33 PM
Everyone believes it is true, like the parables of Jesus. Whether or not the events actually happened is a completely different question. You have not really answered the question. Would it matter to you if the events did not actually happen?
Marcie6:34 PM
There were 11 witnesses to the gold plates. That is proof enough for me. Sometimes we just need to exercise faith.
Martin6:36 PM
There were thousands of witness of the Strangite plates and the LDS Church says they were fakes. But again you are refusing to answer a really simple and basic question that needs to asked and answer before all else: Does it matter or not?
Marcie6:36 PM
I did answer. It matters to me. Does it matter to you?
Martin6:37 PM
Of course not. I curious why it appears to matter to you? What are you hidding? The only reason something so simple is hard to answer is if you hiding something.
Marcie6:39 PM
I find great peace in the Book of Mormon and the stories of the people. I love to know that they were real because it makes it more relatable to me. That's why I care.
Now chatting with: Amy and Marcie and Nathalia
Martin6:41 PM
Wanting something to be relatable does not make them real. If you had a testimony could find them relatable regardless. Just like the parables of Jesus. They are relatable and made up.
[They ended the chat]
5:15 in
Now chatting with: Courtney
Courtney11:40 AM
Hey Aimee, What bring you on chat today?
Aimee11:42 AM
I was reading online about Book of Mormon theories. The appears intense discussion about where the Book of Mormon events may have taken place. Does anyone know?
Courtney11:42 AM
We know it took place in the Americas. However, we don't know every town or city where it is. The american continent has changed a lot since then & over half of the ancestors have died.
Courtney11:46 AM
What cause your interested in the Book?
Courtney11:46 AM
Of where it took place? Good question! We as members of the church of Jesus Christ don't really care where the stories took place. We care about if it's true & how we can apply the teaching of Jesus Christ into our lives.
Aimee11:47 AM
In reading about Mormonism online, I notice a very common theme of praying and asking the Spirit for answers. Given there is such intense discussion on the subject, why hasn't anyone asked the Spirit for an answer?
Courtney11:49 AM
Where exactly they took place doesn't really matter. We know where moroni buried the plates!
Aimee11:51 AM
Why doesn't it matter?
Aimee11:52 AM
It sounds like you are suggesting that the Spirit does not answer all questions and God does not give liberally. Is that correct?
Courtney11:52 AM
Why do you think it does? If you know it took place in the Americas & you are reading the stories to help you with your spirituality not your geography.
Courtney11:52 AM
No that's not right at all.
Courtney11:52 AM
I have never asked Heavenly Father such a stupid question
Aimee11:54 AM
Stupid question? Why does it matter that it took place in the Americas then?
Courtney11:54 AM
You can though if you like & if he wants to answer you, he will. The spirit testifies of truth , however sometimes we may not be prepared enough to get some answers
Aimee11:54 AM
Why is it a stupid question?
Aimee11:55 AM
If it matters it took place in the Americas, then it is a good question where, unless it is also a stupid question that it took place in the Americas.
Courtney11:56 AM
It's not important to your salvation where exactly all the places are. We can know in general where it took place. Have you ever read the book? Or do you just like to read random things on the internet?
Aimee11:57 AM
If salvation is all that is important then it should also be a stupid question where generally. Why does it matter where it generally took place? If it is a stupid question, why is there such intense discussion about by Mormons all over the internet?
Aimee11:58 AM
Why have Mormons not received an answer from the SPirit about where?
Aimee11:58 AM
Like you said, they shoudl be able to, but that have not.
Courtney11:59 AM
You can ask for yourself if you would like. Maybe some have. I have never asked before.
Courtney11:59 AM
Have a great day.
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Aimee12:02 PM
HI
Now chatting with: Mikaela
Mikaela12:03 PM
Hi Aimee! How can I help you?
Aimee12:06 PM
Hi, I was just chatting with Courtney and should indicate that something things about Mormon theology much very extremely uncomfortable and show is very fustrated by her inability to resolve the contradictions.
Mikaela12:07 PM
What questions do you have?
Aimee12:09 PM
I was reading intense discussions online about where the Book fo Mormon may have taken place. Many Mormons expressed uncertainity, while at the same time suggesting the Spirit can answer all questions, but for some reason the Spirit does not answer the question of where in the Americas the Book of Mormon takes place. This contradiction so fustrated Courtney, that she lashed out in anger calling it a stupid question. Why do you think she behaved that way?
Mikaela12:11 PM
I don't know, everyone has their agency
Mikaela12:13 PM
The spirit works differently for everyone. Usually we receive answers to personal questions, not so much broad questions like that
Aimee12:13 PM
Really you have no idea? That is interesting.
Aimee12:13 PM
Why do you the Spirit will not tell Mormons where the Americas the events of the Book of Mormon took place.
Aimee12:16 PM
Why do you think the Spirit will not tell Mormons where in the Americas the events of the Book of Mormon took place?
Mikaela12:17 PM
Have you read the Book of Mormon before?
Aimee12:19 PM
Yes. Why do you think the Spirit will not tell Mormons where in the Americas the events of the Book of Mormon took place? Does the question make you uncomfortable also? Is that why you will not answer it?
Mikaela12:19 PM
No it doesn't make me uncomfortable. Like I said before, the spirit usually only answers our personal questions, and only the prophet can receive revelation for the church as a whole. Also I don't think knowing the exact location of certain events is crucial to our testimonies. That is where faith comes in
Aimee12:23 PM
1.But the Spirit has not answered anyone on this question, and the claim is it will. So you have not answered the question. You claim it does not make you uncomfortable, so why do you refuse to answer the question?
Aimee12:24 PM
2. Right, it does not matter if the events happened or not, because like the parables of Jesus, if the events are made up, it would still be true.
Mikaela12:24 PM
Where does it say the spirit will answer that question?
Mikaela12:24 PM
I'm not saying the events didn't happen, because they did, but I'm saying it really doesn't matter exactly where they took place
Aimee12:28 PM
Mormons through out the internet and missionaries every say that God gives liberally (a cultural adaption of James 1:5) that the Spirit will answer all questions. But of course you know that, by asking the question you are doing what is know as playing dumb, and playing dumb is fantastically insincere and takes one further away from Christ.
Aimee12:28 PM
If it doesn't matter where they took place then it also dosen't matter if they took place at all.
Aimee12:28 PM
Why do you think it matters they took place at all?
Mikaela12:30 PM
I have a testimony that the stories in the Book of Mormon are true and they really did happen. My testimony is not based on the exact coordinates of these events
Aimee12:31 PM
Your assertion that the Spirit will testify of the events generally, but of no specific, is quite the contradiction. That assertion suggest that the Spirit is only testify of the moral of the story, not the story itself.
Aimee12:33 PM
Not just coordinates, but many many specifics, such as wheels, horse, extensive use of military items and metal. There is more scientific evidence for the Atlantis theory of the Americas than the specifics mention in the BoM and the Atlantis theory is consider pure fiction.
Aimee12:35 PM
So with out specifics, you have no idea what your testimony is of, meaning you don't really have a testimony of events, just the moral of the story, which is perfectly valid. But it is invalid to then extend this to so vague notion of events occur, without explaining specifically what this events actually were. You have not do that. Therefore your language displays insincere and a lack of real intent.
Mikaela12:36 PM
Alma 32:21 And now as I said concerning faith— faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
Mikaela12:36 PM
Even if I personally knew exactly where the stories took place, it doesn't change anything. Because I have faith.
Aimee12:38 PM
Alma 32:21 - Exactly. In fact in English faith is belief in thing without evidence. In English, faith does mean belief in things despite the evidence.
Aimee12:39 PM
Belief in the Atlantis theory is not considered faith in English, because their is an abundance of evidence against it. Therefore, believe in the specific events in the Book of Mormon cannot be considered faith in the English language.
Aimee12:40 PM
Unless those sepecifics have not actual meaning.
Aimee12:40 PM
You still have not answer the question of why it matters if the events actually happened or not. Do plan on answering?
Mikaela12:41 PM
My answer is it doesn't matter. I'm sorry, I have to go now because I have a scheduled lesson to teach. I hope you can pray and know the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon, despite your concerns. Have a great day :)
Aimee12:43 PM
Oh. So now you agree with me. It does not matter if the events actually happened or not.
Aimee12:43 PM
Weren't you listening. I told you I believe in the truthness of the BoM. I do not have concerns
Aimee12:43 PM
Why would say otherwise?
Aimee12:45 PM
You have not answered the question of why the Spirit refuses to tell Mormons where the events took place as promised, unless of course the Spirit will not is because the events did not actually take place, in which case it would not matter, like you say.
Aimee12:46 PM
Also, you did not answer the question about why, if you are not uncomfortable, you refuse to answer basic questions?
Now chatting with: Courtney
Courtney11:40 AM
Hey Aimee, What bring you on chat today?
Aimee11:42 AM
I was reading online about Book of Mormon theories. The appears intense discussion about where the Book of Mormon events may have taken place. Does anyone know?
Courtney11:42 AM
We know it took place in the Americas. However, we don't know every town or city where it is. The american continent has changed a lot since then & over half of the ancestors have died.
Courtney11:46 AM
What cause your interested in the Book?
Courtney11:46 AM
Of where it took place? Good question! We as members of the church of Jesus Christ don't really care where the stories took place. We care about if it's true & how we can apply the teaching of Jesus Christ into our lives.
Aimee11:47 AM
In reading about Mormonism online, I notice a very common theme of praying and asking the Spirit for answers. Given there is such intense discussion on the subject, why hasn't anyone asked the Spirit for an answer?
Courtney11:49 AM
Where exactly they took place doesn't really matter. We know where moroni buried the plates!
Aimee11:51 AM
Why doesn't it matter?
Aimee11:52 AM
It sounds like you are suggesting that the Spirit does not answer all questions and God does not give liberally. Is that correct?
Courtney11:52 AM
Why do you think it does? If you know it took place in the Americas & you are reading the stories to help you with your spirituality not your geography.
Courtney11:52 AM
No that's not right at all.
Courtney11:52 AM
I have never asked Heavenly Father such a stupid question
Aimee11:54 AM
Stupid question? Why does it matter that it took place in the Americas then?
Courtney11:54 AM
You can though if you like & if he wants to answer you, he will. The spirit testifies of truth , however sometimes we may not be prepared enough to get some answers
Aimee11:54 AM
Why is it a stupid question?
Aimee11:55 AM
If it matters it took place in the Americas, then it is a good question where, unless it is also a stupid question that it took place in the Americas.
Courtney11:56 AM
It's not important to your salvation where exactly all the places are. We can know in general where it took place. Have you ever read the book? Or do you just like to read random things on the internet?
Aimee11:57 AM
If salvation is all that is important then it should also be a stupid question where generally. Why does it matter where it generally took place? If it is a stupid question, why is there such intense discussion about by Mormons all over the internet?
Aimee11:58 AM
Why have Mormons not received an answer from the SPirit about where?
Aimee11:58 AM
Like you said, they shoudl be able to, but that have not.
Courtney11:59 AM
You can ask for yourself if you would like. Maybe some have. I have never asked before.
Courtney11:59 AM
Have a great day.
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Aimee12:02 PM
HI
Now chatting with: Mikaela
Mikaela12:03 PM
Hi Aimee! How can I help you?
Aimee12:06 PM
Hi, I was just chatting with Courtney and should indicate that something things about Mormon theology much very extremely uncomfortable and show is very fustrated by her inability to resolve the contradictions.
Mikaela12:07 PM
What questions do you have?
Aimee12:09 PM
I was reading intense discussions online about where the Book fo Mormon may have taken place. Many Mormons expressed uncertainity, while at the same time suggesting the Spirit can answer all questions, but for some reason the Spirit does not answer the question of where in the Americas the Book of Mormon takes place. This contradiction so fustrated Courtney, that she lashed out in anger calling it a stupid question. Why do you think she behaved that way?
Mikaela12:11 PM
I don't know, everyone has their agency
Mikaela12:13 PM
The spirit works differently for everyone. Usually we receive answers to personal questions, not so much broad questions like that
Aimee12:13 PM
Really you have no idea? That is interesting.
Aimee12:13 PM
Why do you the Spirit will not tell Mormons where the Americas the events of the Book of Mormon took place.
Aimee12:16 PM
Why do you think the Spirit will not tell Mormons where in the Americas the events of the Book of Mormon took place?
Mikaela12:17 PM
Have you read the Book of Mormon before?
Aimee12:19 PM
Yes. Why do you think the Spirit will not tell Mormons where in the Americas the events of the Book of Mormon took place? Does the question make you uncomfortable also? Is that why you will not answer it?
Mikaela12:19 PM
No it doesn't make me uncomfortable. Like I said before, the spirit usually only answers our personal questions, and only the prophet can receive revelation for the church as a whole. Also I don't think knowing the exact location of certain events is crucial to our testimonies. That is where faith comes in
Aimee12:23 PM
1.But the Spirit has not answered anyone on this question, and the claim is it will. So you have not answered the question. You claim it does not make you uncomfortable, so why do you refuse to answer the question?
Aimee12:24 PM
2. Right, it does not matter if the events happened or not, because like the parables of Jesus, if the events are made up, it would still be true.
Mikaela12:24 PM
Where does it say the spirit will answer that question?
Mikaela12:24 PM
I'm not saying the events didn't happen, because they did, but I'm saying it really doesn't matter exactly where they took place
Aimee12:28 PM
Mormons through out the internet and missionaries every say that God gives liberally (a cultural adaption of James 1:5) that the Spirit will answer all questions. But of course you know that, by asking the question you are doing what is know as playing dumb, and playing dumb is fantastically insincere and takes one further away from Christ.
Aimee12:28 PM
If it doesn't matter where they took place then it also dosen't matter if they took place at all.
Aimee12:28 PM
Why do you think it matters they took place at all?
Mikaela12:30 PM
I have a testimony that the stories in the Book of Mormon are true and they really did happen. My testimony is not based on the exact coordinates of these events
Aimee12:31 PM
Your assertion that the Spirit will testify of the events generally, but of no specific, is quite the contradiction. That assertion suggest that the Spirit is only testify of the moral of the story, not the story itself.
Aimee12:33 PM
Not just coordinates, but many many specifics, such as wheels, horse, extensive use of military items and metal. There is more scientific evidence for the Atlantis theory of the Americas than the specifics mention in the BoM and the Atlantis theory is consider pure fiction.
Aimee12:35 PM
So with out specifics, you have no idea what your testimony is of, meaning you don't really have a testimony of events, just the moral of the story, which is perfectly valid. But it is invalid to then extend this to so vague notion of events occur, without explaining specifically what this events actually were. You have not do that. Therefore your language displays insincere and a lack of real intent.
Mikaela12:36 PM
Alma 32:21 And now as I said concerning faith— faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.
Mikaela12:36 PM
Even if I personally knew exactly where the stories took place, it doesn't change anything. Because I have faith.
Aimee12:38 PM
Alma 32:21 - Exactly. In fact in English faith is belief in thing without evidence. In English, faith does mean belief in things despite the evidence.
Aimee12:39 PM
Belief in the Atlantis theory is not considered faith in English, because their is an abundance of evidence against it. Therefore, believe in the specific events in the Book of Mormon cannot be considered faith in the English language.
Aimee12:40 PM
Unless those sepecifics have not actual meaning.
Aimee12:40 PM
You still have not answer the question of why it matters if the events actually happened or not. Do plan on answering?
Mikaela12:41 PM
My answer is it doesn't matter. I'm sorry, I have to go now because I have a scheduled lesson to teach. I hope you can pray and know the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon, despite your concerns. Have a great day :)
Aimee12:43 PM
Oh. So now you agree with me. It does not matter if the events actually happened or not.
Aimee12:43 PM
Weren't you listening. I told you I believe in the truthness of the BoM. I do not have concerns
Aimee12:43 PM
Why would say otherwise?
Aimee12:45 PM
You have not answered the question of why the Spirit refuses to tell Mormons where the events took place as promised, unless of course the Spirit will not is because the events did not actually take place, in which case it would not matter, like you say.
Aimee12:46 PM
Also, you did not answer the question about why, if you are not uncomfortable, you refuse to answer basic questions?